Transcript: Project Pals
[Upbeat Intro Music]
Ximena: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Project Pals podcast. We are your hosts, Ximena
Maryam: Maryam
Zainab: And Zainab.
Ximena: And on today's episode, we're here to talk about topics related to misinformation in science. We are students who are part of utmONE, a class dedicated to discussing scientific communication and its possible errors. Shout out, Chris! Yes, we love this class.
[Zainab and Maryam voice their agreements]
Ximena: So let's get started
Zainab's Part
Segment 1: Introduction and Background
Zainab: Okay, so I guess I'll start! Again, my name is Zainab and the question that I researched for our little misinformation Um, research project is how are an individual's healthcare practices' perceptions of skincare and interactions with skincare trends influenced by scientific gatekeeping and oversimplified skincare science on social media, and I know that's a lot. So to put it into more simple terms in general, How are social media and academic gatekeeping impacting people and their relationships with skincare?
Zainab: Okay so yeah, my topic is about skincare, skincare science, and social media, and academia, and how the two of those things impact people and their interactions and feelings towards skincare.
Zainab: And I honestly chose this topic because I myself am a skincare fiend and like I'm an enthusiast or whatever you want to call it. But yeah, when we were first introduced to this assignment, I was actually reminded of an assignment I did last semester for biology, which was on like, scientific literacy and the topic I chose for that was something about skin care It wasn't exactly about like, social media and skincare, but it was skincare related and, and I was thinking, you know, I was like kind of brainstorming what I wanted to do for this, and I was thinking oh, maybe I should do something here that has that topic because I feel like there's a lot of Scholarly conversations on skin care because like dermatology is a scientific community.
Zainab: So I was like, you know what? I feel like it'll probably work. So aside from my own reasoning, I want to kind of get into like the history that could give you some background information on the ins and outs of the research like specifically to my question. And then that'll probably lead me into explaining like social media and academic gatekeeping. So sound good?
Maryam: Sounds good.
Ximena: Great.
Zainab: Great, so a big thing that I found through just researching the history of beauty and skincare is that it's always been really heavily advertised in the media. So like for example, if you go back to the roaring 20s. Um, there's always been eras of women's beauty or women's health and all that stuff has always been like influenced by the media kind of making like, it like, a trend and boosting it.
Zainab: And these trends have become so much more mainstream, especially nowadays because of social media that like, you can get super complex scientific information really dumbed down so that like what you see on social media like anywhere.
Zainab: It's really superficial like it's very surface layer information that isn't really honest to just the regular everyday people. So that's a big part of the misinformation aspect of my question. Aside from that, there's also the side of academic gatekeeping as being a tool for misinformation. So essentially what academic gatekeeping is, in like very simple terms, is kind of like super smart people who have access to certain types of knowledge or information that isn't really easy to understand.
Zainab: And those same people aren't really actively trying to make that information easier for everyday people like us to understand. I feel like we all probably have some experience with this, I don't know, I definitely have.
Maryam and Ximena: I do, I do.
Zainab: So an example, for example, is if social media is dumbing everything that you see down, and you actually want to understand what you're using on your skin on like a fundamental level and, let's say you go try to look up a research paper on like a clinical trial of some sort of like skincare ingredient that you're using. These papers are so often filled with language that we could just not understand as regular people, and there's no attempt being done to make it simple. So because there's no attempt to give people access to that information that could potentially honestly like counteract the misinformation that you see on social media.
Zainab: I think the two, like, overlap. So in a sense that where one social media oversimplifies skincare science But one, academic gatekeeping makes it too complicated and both of them lead to the spread of misinformation.
Segment 2: Social media as a form of communication for healthcare professionals
Zainab: So, as you know, we had two parts to this project. We had a literature review and then a research-like part of it where we were researching solutions or and like we made up a solution, so I'm gonna start with discussing and kind of summarizing my literature review and then going into the research part
Zainab: So for my literature review, I formatted it into three sections. One was social media as a method of communication for medical practitioners, specifically dermatologists in my case, then social media as a method of communication for patients or just regular people and then the part of academic gatekeeping.
Zainab: So for the first section about social media as a method of communication for medical practitioners. The overall thing that I found was that there's a general consensus from dermatologists that social media is harming their field because it prevents the proper practices of the specialty, and the field. And it's kind of a thing that widens communication gaps between the medical community and the general public.
Zainab: So for example, an example that I used in my paper was the Sephora 10 year-olds.
Ximena: Oh god.
[Maryam voicing her dissatisfaction]
[Zainab laughs]
Zainab: Um, and it was just about how these children are exposed to like skin care trends that they don't know anything about, and they just go blindly out and buy it, right? Like they don't- obviously they're 10-year-olds, they're not going to research what they're using.
Ximena: No, I've seen this video, I'm sorry.
Zainab: Yeah, go ahead.
Ximena: I saw this video of this one child, and her mom was asking, and the child wanted like a spray, like a facial spray, from like Tower 28.
Zainab: Yeah, yeah.
Ximena: And the mom was like, what does it do? And the girl was like, it sprays your face.
Zainab: Oh, yes, yes, and the mom was asking like, no, but what does it do? And she said she didn't know. Exactly.
Maryam: So then, why do you need it if you don't know?
Ximena: Because it's trendy. She said, because it's popular.
Zainab: Exactly. No, and I was like, no, like that actually made me mad.
Ximena: It made me upset.
Zainab: Right?
Ximena: It's sad. No.
Zainab: Yeah, and it's not just TikTok. Like TikTok is not the only place that's like a part of this misinformation, but I also saw some paper that was discussing Reddit.
Ximena: Oh god!
Zainab [laughing]: Yes. Um, obviously we all know what Reddit is. Reddit is just like a, like a forum place where everyone can post questions and whatnot. And the, the paper looked at how Reddit, people go to Reddit just to look for information and ask strangers, like,
Zainab [in a high-pitched voice]: Hey, can you guys give me skincare advice?
[Ximena and Maryam laughing in the background]
Zainab: And these people are not medical professionals, and they're just complete strangers, and you're asking complete strangers to give you advice on your health, and it's like that's harmful because it's like why are you going to someone that has no idea about what they're talking about and kind of trusting their word for it, right?
And so there was some there's like conversations on how like, I'm gonna quote directly from a paper from Miletello et al., “from the discourse on alternative therapies to the skepticism about medical guidelines misinformation on social media can happen deleterious effects on public health.”
So I feel like that quote summarizes the entirety of the literature, like that section of the literature review, where it's just like social media is just, as a third party, it just negatively affects dermatologists, because as much as they want to go in and try to solve the problem, there's just so much misinformation that just overwhelms like, the space, right?
[Maryam expresses her agreement]
Segment 3: Social media as a form of communication for the public
Zainab: And in terms of social media as a communication for the general public, again, we have the Sephora 10-year-olds, which is a whole thing on its own. I feel like we could have a whole, like, discussion on just that.
Ximena: A whole podcast episode.
Zainab: Right? But it's just, yeah, it's just how social media, for people, it's just a way for them to spread misinformation, even if they don't know it or not, right?
They will spread pseudoscientific information as fact, right? And obviously, people just don't know the difference so they're just gonna spread it, and they're not gonna know any better and there was actually a (paused) It wasn't a paper, but it was like a chapter in a book from this author named ‘Reddy’, that pointed out that pseudoscientific information that's taken as fact is something that's super harmful and especially towards vulnerable groups specifically like women older women especially who feel the need to conform to these unrealistic beauty standards and like try to look youthful, right?
And so it's really clear that social media is impacting skincare trends, and it is impacting how people feel towards themselves and the skincare that they use and that's a problem, right? Like that is a bad thing for misinformation
Segment 4: Gatekeeping what's important
Zainab: So the third part of my literature review I sectioned off as specifically just talking about academic gatekeeping. So in my research, I didn't really find much literature that discussed academic gatekeeping in academia which is what I was trying to focus on like on published papers and stuff. The closest thing that I could find was a like article that talked about medical jargon as being harmful and medical jargon is kind of when doctors or professionals use really big medical terminology like super scientific words to just patients and not really understanding that their patients aren't going to understand what they're saying So that is a form of gatekeeping, but It's not really academic, right?
In terms of academic gatekeeping, there's a lot that's going towards like, “Oh, doctors should use patient-friendly language and have things in place to get their points across effectively” but there's not really anything specifically toward what they're trying to publish and how what they're published can be, like, un gate[kept] from the general public.
So yeah, that was a little bit interesting. I didn't really think, I personally thought there would be a lot more on academic gatekeeping, but clearly, there isn't.
Segment 5: Summarizing the literature review
Zainab: Uh, before getting into the research and solutions, I think a key takeaway from my literature review that I've seen is that dermatologists are very aware of the harms of social media and are very cognizant of the fact that they should try to do more. However, there's not really much effort being put into that. There's also a lot of discussion on social media being harmful for people. Again, the Sephora 10-year-olds have read it, all that good stuff.
Ximena [in the background]: Normal users
Zainab: So, that's very good, and we also, uh, have seen and discussed that academic gatekeeping is very real, although not discussed in the sense of academia. Gatekeeping, just dermatology, is very prevalent, and there should be stuff that is being done to prevent it, which we will be discussing when we go into the possible solutions!
Segment 6: A possible solution
Zainab: Okay, so now that the literature review summary is over, I'm going to go into my research on what is being done to remedy the problem, if there's any solutions that are going on. And how I did that.
So for my research, I kind of did a second literature review because the thing was I felt like there wasn't really any way for me to kind of maybe do like a survey on how the problem is being handled because I felt like my problem really should be solved at like a more academic level through like actual people that can actually incite change.
So that's why I kind of went through databases that were available from our school and also like Google Scholar that gave published papers, research papers, all that good stuff that potentially talked about solutions. And I used a total of seven peer-reviewed papers. I also used some outside sources that were not peer-reviewed, but they were also like reliable. So I think there was one news article and a chapter in a book that I found. And so that was also from like dermatologists or people that are in that field that could attest to solutions.
And so what I found specifically was that there wasn't really much discussion going on about either trying to solve the problem of misinformation in social media and academic gatekeeping.
On the social media side, I actually found a little bit more than I was expecting. I did find that there are like dermatologists individually trying to put themselves on social media and try to like combat misinformation. So I feel like if you've been on TikTok, there's probably like those like, like one-off dermatologists that they're like, you should be doing this, you should be doing that. And like, they are trying to -
Ximena [interjecting]: I'm a board-licensed dermatologist.
Zainab: Yes, that lady! the board-licensed dermatologist. So they're there, right? They're trying their best to make a difference, but there's not really anything being done like on like, a broader scale. The closest thing I found to something being done on like a bigger scale was a company called Unilever, which during the 2023 World Congress of Dermatology in Singapore, it's like a meeting with dermatologists had dermatologists come on and correct some misconceptions or stuff about misinformation. Um, like, skincare and stuff.
Zainab: It wasn't really directly social media related, but it was kind of like the closest thing that I could find that was trying to solve the problem. So I guess, you know, that kind of works as a solution.
Zainab: For academic gatekeeping, I honestly found nothing from the dermatology community on academic gatekeeping, and that's crazy. But I want to clarify that I was looking specifically for academic gatekeeping in research papers because in my mind that is the main area where dermatology like especially clinical trials and just reviews on skincare ingredients are most talked about
Zainab: So the only gatekeeping discussion that I could find was about how family doctors are gatekeeping dermatology referrals from their patients. So there is talk about like gatekeeping dermatology as like a practice, but not in the academic sense.
Zainab: And again, I feel like that distinction is super important because sure doctors preventing patients from seeing dermatologists also prevents those patients from learning or unlearning what they've learned from social media, but I felt like the academic side was more important because research papers on things like clinical trials are more readily available online.
Zainab: And so people have like easier access to look for them, and they have more access to that information without needing to like, go through like a doctor to go to a dermatologist. So I felt like looking for something that specifically targeted research papers was like smarter in my opinion, because I felt like if there was potential discussion on the paper side, I felt like there might be like, like an acknowledgement of like, oh yes, our field should be more available to the general public, specifically in what we're writing, what we're saying, not just what our dermatologists that like run, uh, a clinic do, right?
Zainab: So, as we just saw in my research on potential solutions, there aren't really any solutions on my question. So I came up with a little proposal that could work. Again, this is, I feel like this is kind of idealistic because it's like, this question is so big that just one university student, I feel like could not provide like a realistic enough solution.
Zainab: But in my head, I feel like, you know, with the right people, with the right, like sourcing you could make it happen. So, you know what? You know if anyone's interested if anyone's listening to this podcast.
Ximena: If someone wants to fund…
Zainab: Yes, if some really, you know high-up official is listening to this, and they think this is worthy, please hit me up.
[Zainab, Ximena and Maryam all laugh]
Zainab: Anyway, so the solution that I proposed follows the global health days that the WHO, the World Health Organization does.
Zainab: Basically, I felt like the solution could be applied on like a smaller scale because the World Health Organization is a huge organization, right?
Zainab: They have the ability to do these global health campaigns around the world very easily. Obviously, if we're starting off with something, I feel like if you do it regionally, it would be better, so I kind of thought, my thought process on making this campaign was that you start with assembling a team of people that includes dermatologists, public health officials, and communication experts and have these people come together to explore already published research, not make new research, but just focus on what's already there.
Zainab: And with the help of dermatologists and communication experts, kind of form evidence-based education material. Keeping in mind, the goal of these materials to be as simple to understand without losing the key science. So this is a way to address the academic gatekeeping.
Zainab: From here the campaigns can adopt the global public health days like a format that the World Health Organization has to guide with scheduling um, information stuff and how to engage the community with workshops, seminars, and all that stuff. They'll be like recruiting volunteers, training them to support, actually facilitating these campaigns. And I feel like this collective effort could really come together and promote skin care health awareness and education within the community so that the general public can become more educated and more vigilant.
Zainab: So, you know, I feel like, you know, who knows if this is a little idealistic, but in my head I feel like I feel like it's reasonable, right? What do you guys think?
Maryam: Yeah, it is!
Ximena: Especially regionally, like you mentioned.
Zainab: Yeah,
Ximena: It's doable, right? It's doable.
Zainab [while laughing]: Okay, thank you. I needed that.
Zainab: Um, so yeah, but I also wanted to keep one thing in mind in my next steps, there's one limitation that I feel like could be possible with this framework. The campaigns are formed with the intent to be applied globally, but as I mentioned like you have to do it regionally because you have to keep in mind there's like different parts of the world have different cultures and different societal structures and that influences how they interact with like, like people that are higher, in like, positions than them. And also how they interact with like social media, so I feel like if you keep in mind those cultural and societal differences, you could kind of tweak the campaigns in a way to be the most effective they can possibly be in whichever given region they're in so that's the solution.
[Clapping]
Ximena: Beautiful!
Zainab: Thank you.
Ximena: Literally world solving.
Segment 7: Questions and Answers
Zainab [laughing]: Thank you! Okay, so now that I've given you all the TLDR of my entire research project, are there any questions that you might have that were brewing up?
Ximena: Yes. First of all…
Zainab: Yes.
Ximena: What does TLDR stand for?
Zainab: Okay. TLDR is too long, didn't read.
Ximena: Oh, I see.
Zainab: Yeah. That's that!
Ximena: Okay, you learn something new every day?
Zainab: Yes.
Ximena: Okay. But for reals?
Zainab: Yes.
Ximena: So why do you think there isn't much talk about trying to stop academic gatekeeping?
Zainab: Honestly, that's a really good question. Uh, I feel like there's not much talk about trying to stop it because I feel like maybe it's not like as prevalent of an issue as like overall as you like people make it seem because I feel like the term academic gatekeeping is very new like the term. Gatekeeping in general, it's like a very modern word or like in the context that we're using it in, it's kind of modernized. And so I feel like because of the fact that the term is new itself maybe the like problem itself isn't really that like um like that relevant yet because I feel like maybe also from the perspective of a student. As a student I feel like I'm personally affected by academic gatekeeping because like when I try to go look not just for this project for in general like any sort of class when I try to go look at research papers and I don't understand what they're saying I'm
[Ximena and Mayam voice acknowledgment and agreement]
Zainab: Yes I there's that that's a barrier to me, so I'm more cognizant of it right like I'm more aware, but I feel like maybe the people that are like unintentionally perpetuating the gatekeeping. So like the scholars the academics, they probably aren't affected by academic gatekeeping because they're in that field. So they don't really have to worry about like, oh, do I understand this or not? So I feel like it's also a problem, or it's not talked about because the people that are doing it don't realize that they're doing it, right? You get what I mean?
Ximena: I do get it.
Zainab: So that's that's my reasoning, that's kind of like my rationale.
Ximena: And I agree with your reasoning and your rationale.
Zainab: Thank you! So, Maryam, do you have a question?
Maryam: Yes, I do. So I was wondering why you look at academic gatekeeping not just the social media side of it, cause I know it isn't social media like a bigger problem when it comes to misinformation.
Zainab: Honestly, that's a good question. When I first started looking at this project I was probably only gonna focus on social media because I was like when you think of misinformation the first thing that comes up is social media, right?
Maryam [In the background]: Social media, right.
Zainab: So I was definitely when I started I was like, yeah I feel like social media is like a big part of misinformation with skincare, but I was like we had to kind of come up with something that isn't discussed already, and I felt like in my head there was already so much discussion on social media as a problem.
Zainab: So I was kind of trying to think of something that was a little bit more unique. And so in doing that, I kind of started thinking about last semester that project that I mentioned for like biology. When I was reading these research papers, I realized that there was a lot of words that I just didn't understand like I had to have a second tab on Google open that was like, what does TEWL stand for? Because it wasn't explained in the paper, right?
Zainab: And so that's when I realized academic gatekeeping is something that is a problem. And I feel like the way I connected it with misinformation is that, again how I kind of explained it while I was discussing like the overview of my project, but it's just that like, you don't really think about misinformation in the sense of academia because I feel like in academia, you think that everything is accurate, everything is truthful, and that is true. Academia is reliable because of what you're what everyone is presented with is truthful but I kind of thought of it as like I didn't understand what I was reading in those research papers and let's say I decided to want to like, summarize it for someone else, and I didn't have the main like I didn't get the main point that they were trying to get across I didn't understand that, and I put that out somewhere else, I am indirectly spreading misinformation from the academia that's being gatekept from me.
[Maryam expresses her agreement]
Zainab: So that's kind of why I thought to discuss academic gatekeeping as well and not just social media
Maryam: Okay!
Ximena: Very good
[Beep noise]
Ad Break
Zainab: We interrupt your regular programming for a quick ad.
[With upbeat music playing in the background]
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[Sound of children going yay]
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[Beep]
Maryam's Part
Segment 1: Introduction and Background
 Zainab: Okay, so now that I have summarized my beautiful research project, who else wants to present their amazing work next?
Maryam: I'll go next. So I'm Maryam. So my topic was basically about social media and how it leads to procrastination. So we all know that social media is a worldwide phenomenon that is led to many behavioural issues. So this all accumulates to like workplace procrastination, academic procrastination, they're different types.
Maryam: So as people explore a virtual platform such as Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter and others, the question I wanted to research is how does the virtual entertainment add to procrastination? How can we shape our worldly discussions efficiently? So the charm of procrastination lies in the capability to give moments of delight cultivating in steady streams of data and data, and it is because of this very appeal that raises concerns–concern about the possible job and fueling lack of motivation, and redirecting people from their productivity.
Maryam: So through my research, I found that many people worldwide become addicted to using social media due to the introduction of the internet and the accessibility that it provides and how easy it is to use. So students frequently use social media in both higher education and lower education institutions because of probably like the challenges they face at universities, and they just don't want to deal with it. So like they kind of have this temporarily- temporarily relief that they would just kind of just scroll on their phones instead of just doing the work.
Ximena: Guilty.
Zainab: Very, very guilty.
Maryam: So, um, this can also cause students to like, miss their deadlines or like not study for the exams and stuff like that. So the use of social networking apps for recreational purposes conflict with these assignments that they were given as well.
Zainab: Right.
Maryam: So according to a study done in 2020 by Caramer an average person spends about two hours and like 24 minutes a day
Ximena: A day!
Maryam: A day!
[Ximena and Zainab express their shock]
Maryam: This was in 2019. So later on, we would figure like we would have a new statistics for like last year, but this is not too much because personally I think I go on social media way more than that.
Zainab: Oh, yeah, my screen time!
Ximena: This was pre-pandemic.
Maryam: Yeah, this is 2019 pre-pandemic, so it's not that much. And this was a jarring statistics, which honestly because I thought it wound me way more.
Zainab: Yeah!
Maryam: So this is what caused me to like dig deeper and see like what the reason for that was.
Zainab: Um-hum.
Segment 2: Literary Review
Maryam: So now for my literary review.
Maryam: So the rise of social media as well as experiencing procrastinated behaviour is a worldwide phenomenon. So there was research done by Stockholm that described through his research, that how problematic the use of social media and internet that often leads to procrastination, which later on develops into the form of addiction, where individuals constantly seek rushes of dopamine, where they get through social media in order to combat negative emotions.
Ximena: Noo.
[Zainab and Maryam laughing in the background]
Maryam: Additionally, emotions also play a large role in instigating the relationship between procrastination and social media use. Specifically the condition of social, social anxiety and social phobia.
Zainab: Oh true.
Ximena: True.
[Maryam laughing in the background]
Maryam: So there have been many interpretations of the word procrastination and ,according to Curas, um, it is defined as the delay of working on a goal that is intended to benefit them in any way, and then later, and then pursuing other guilty pleasures.
Zainab: Okay.
Maryam: So, um, so this phenomena that it's heavily depending on the lack of self-regulatory processes cause you're not really able to regulate how much social media you do consume.
Zainab: Right, okay.
Maryam: And then, procrastination is typically not an intense, of like, one time behavior. It's like a reoccurring thing that happens more than once because you're just constantly seeking that rush of dopamine, which is associated with like, submission of, like, short term temptations, like delaying a long term goal to just get like a short term pleasure.
Ximena: Every day.
[Maryam and Zainab laughing in the background]
Maryam: Um, so that is why more often than not issues with self-regulatory behaviours derived from pleasure seeking or attempts to de-stress. The more prevalent for the most prevalent form of this behaviour is social media, and it's increasing depends on dependency across individuals and communities around the world. So despite small discrepancy, depending on culture and social location, social media and internet usage has become a vital component for everyday life.
Maryam: So according to Kemp, he released the statistic database for early 2023, revealing that more than half of the world, like 59. 4 percent engage in social media, which is approximately 4.76 billion people.
Zainab: Ohh!
Ximena: Woah!
Maryam: And if you compare this with like the statistics that we saw before, it's completely increased. So there could be a few factors like COVID happened and like everyone was online so that increases social media usage as well to keep in touch with other people.
Zainab: Yeah.
Maryam: So this dramatic increase in social media usage inevitably comes from its own consequences. One being the increased level of procrastination occur occasionally by media and internet addiction.
Zainab: Um-hum.
Maryam: A study conducted by Durack in 2020 modelled variables related to the problematic usage of internet and social media, specifically the impacts of adolescence with their academic climate.
Maryam: Additionally, an important piece of the information is to note that Durack's study is that the play They place specific emphasis on the vital catalyst that influences social media impacts on procrastination, and this catalyst is social anxiety.
Zainab: Um-hum.
Maryam: So social anxiety, or social phobia, is a chronic mental health condition that impacts everyday interactions, causing significant anxiety and self consciousness. Um, so in many instances, social phobia and instigation de-stresses, over negative evaluations by others or nervousness during social interactions. Or in most social environments where individuals cannot interact with each other without feeling stressful.
Zainab: Oh yeah. I can attest to that.
Ximena: This whole thing is just a gigantic callout post.
Zainab: Right? Like, I feel very attacked right now, but like, keep going.
[Laughter in background]
Maryam: So Durack’s research led him to conclude that from an academic standpoint, the adolescents who scored higher on the PSMU scale, which is basically just the social media frequency score scale. If they scored higher on that scale, they were also most likely to score higher on the SASA scale, which is just measuring the level of social anxiety that you face in everyday situations.
Maryam: So there is a direct correlation between those two. And then similarly, a strong positive relation has also been seen in the PSMU scale, which is basically social media addiction and the procrastination in academic environments. So while social anxiety and procrastination appear to have a connection in Durack’s study, it is also related that a negative self evaluation and stress in stress and depression. And anxiety also leads to procrastination, which also leads to having a higher social media usage.
Zainab: Um-hum.
Maryam: So this research showed that how individuals with social anxiety often possess increased level of perfectionism and simultaneous avoidance of responsibilities as well. So which occasionally procrastination instigating the use of social media in order to create an appealing environment to soothe that anxiety. So as a result, high levels of social media engagement and internet use have also resulted in a never ending cycle of anxiety and procrastination because you're anxious.
Zainab: Yeah.
Maryam: You're going to kinda use your phone to like kind of chill and then that's procrastinating, and then you're just like a whole cycle.
Zainab: God, I'm getting so called out right now. Oh my God. This is like, you're like psychoanalysing me so well right now.
[Ximena and Maryam laughing in the background]
Maryam: Okay. So the notion of social media being used as a relaxation tool or a catalyst to soothe oneself has become rather tainted, as these short me social media breaks have now become long sessions of just addictive using of one's phone.
Zainab: Mm-hmm.
Maryam: Which leads to procrastination.
Zainab: Yep.
Maryam: So, as further elaborated by the LaRoch study in 2011, cyberstalking is also a form of procrastination.
Ximena: Woah.
[Ximena and Zainab express their shock]
Maryam: That often appears within professions stalking using computers.
Zainab: Stalking!
Maryam: Yeah stalking! So these distractions through social media networking sites also lead to various short term temptations such as online shopping, blogging, gambling, gaming, instant messaging. All those are part of procrastination as well. It's not just like scrolling on TikTok.
Zainab: Right, okay.
Maryam: So once again behaviours such as procrastination or cyberstalking are often propagated as a result of an individual's urge to need that release from a stress stressful environment And that one this can be achieved with is social media and internet usage So within a similar workplace setting the LeRoch study has also identified that the relationship between job satisfaction and engagement in procrastination behavior such as cyberstalking can have long negative side effects as well. So this pertains to the idea that greater injustices within the workplace climate and greater dissatisfaction among workers often lead to the creation of a toxic environment.
Maryam: One of these employees will actively seek rushes of dopamine and his increased social media uses have proven that media can also, um, bring out those feelings of relaxation and joy, which results in like procrastination and cyberstalking and therefore, not really getting your work done. Which is, kind of, decreasing the productivity of the company that you work for.
Zainab: Right.
Maryam: At the end of the day, there is a plethora of research and studies and statistics that have proved a strong connection between social media usage and procrastination. Specifically elaborating how problematic media consumption and internet addiction can instigate the presence of social anxiety, encouraging acts of cyber shocking, and eventually accumulating a cycle of procrastinating habits.
Maryam: So procrastination is an evident phenomenon, that is. That it varies in circumstances, most probably within workplaces and academic environments.
Segment 3: Next Steps
Maryam: So for some of my next steps, um, would be to limit… Yeah, next up to limit procrastination would be to use social networking sites as in, like, increments and have like, someone, like, because if it's really bad for you, kind of have the monitor you so you don't use it.
Zainab: Yeah.
[Laughter in background]
Maryam: I know it's harsh, but just like, like for me, like, I would just like go on and on and on.
Zainab: Yeah.
Maryam: I need someone to physically stop me.
Zainab: No, exactly.
Maryam: Kind of just like kind of monitor you so you can use in like increments, and you also get your work done.
Zainab: Um-hum.
Maryam: So and also to like only check for like, necessities. Like for me, if I want to study for something, I have to like completely shut my phone off and like, put it in a corner, so I don't see it. Like, as soon as I see, like, a notification I'm, like, on it again.
Zainab: Really?
Maryam: And like it's a cycle. So like I have to just like get it out of the way. And then also social media has become like really imperative within the 21st century as like collaborating distributing information, social networking like all those things are like on the internet.
Zainab: Right.
Maryam: So it's really hard to, like, distinguish if you're using it for like beneficial reasons or like if you're just kind of going on it.
Zainab: Right.
Maryam: For like beneficial reasons, or if you're kinda going on it to waste time.
Zainab: I don't want to cut you off but…
Maryam: Yeah.
Zainab: Actually, what you were saying about studying and having to keep your phone off, I don't know that's like interesting because for me. I don't know if it's because I feel like when I'm studying, I like I'm already in that mindset.
Maryam: Um-hum.
Zainab: Where like I have to be like locked in.
Maryam: That is so good.
[Maryam laughing]
Zainab: Because like.
Ximena: I'm I'm proud of you.
[Laughter in background]
Zainab: Not to flex. Like this isn't how like guys, I'm better than you! Like I'm a victim, like I procrastinate. But I feel like when it comes to like specifically like doing a specific task. I feel like, yes, I have to keep my phone away but if I see a notification, I feel like I'm like maybe because of like the mindset I'm in.
Maryam: Yeah.
Zainab: Maybe there's like a psychological thing or like because I'm like so overwhelmed with like what I'm actually studying for.
Maryam: Um-hum.
Zainab: This like the notification stuff sometimes yes, I will be like, oh, I think it's time for a break.
[Maryam laughing]
Zainab: And then that break ends up being like way too long, but I feel like overall for me, it's not like that bad.
Maryam: Okay.
Zainab: So like that's why I'm interested in like what you're saying.
Maryam: Yeah, no for me like I work best under pressure like always last deadlines.
Zainab: Oh, I can't.
Maryam: Yeah, like that's what I need. Focus and like, lock in. That's it. No, yeah, that's interesting though.
Zainab: What about you?
Maryam: What about you?
[Directed towards Ximena]
Ximena: I use my phone to study, like quite literally. I don't know if you guys know the Pomodoro Technique.
Zainab: Oh yes. Yes!
Maryam: Oohhh.
Ximena: Yeah. I'm a Pomodoro fiend.
Zainab: Okay.
Maryam: What is that?
Ximena: Okay, so it's basically like, um, like a technique where you study in intervals. So you can put like a timer for 20 minutes.
Maryam: Okay. Oh, I do that too!
Ximena:. See, and then you like, when you're finished with your 20 minutes, you're like, okay, time to scroll for five minutes. Right.
[Maryam and Zainab voice agreement]
Ximena: And so I have an app. It's called like a Tim, a Pomodoro app. Pomodoro? Tomato Timer?
Yeah, I think I know I don't know,
Ximena: But yeah, I love the Tomato Timer. I live and die for the Tomato Timer.
Maryam: I saw TikToks on that!
[All laughing]
Ximena: I live and die for the Tomato Timer. All my friends have used it, like, consider this an unofficial ad for the Tomato Timer on the App Store*
*Editing Note: The app is called Focus Tomato.
[More laughter]
Ximena: Um, but yeah, so what I do is that I'll put on my little timer, and I found actually that if I meditate for five minutes, which sounds so stupid, but it's it works. Okay, it works!
[Maryam and Zainab laughing]
Zainab: Don't knock it till you try it!
Maryam: I believe you!
Ximena: Uh huh if I study I meditate for like two minutes, and I'm like…
[Deep breathing by Ximena]
Ximena: You know?
Zainab: Um-hum.
Maryam: Yeah.
Ximena: And then I just turn on my tomato timer, and then I literally throw my phone on my bed
Zainab: Um-hum.
Ximena: And like I just like nope, goodbye.
Zainab: Um-hum.
Maryam: Um-hum.
Ximena: And then I work for my like hour and a half and then when I'm getting distracted I'm like, okay It's time for a break. It's time for a break.
[Maryam and Zainab voice agreement]
Ximena: But it's worked so far, but I do have an issue of getting off my phone and starting to study.
Zainab: Um-hum.
Maryam: Yeah, that's a big one.
Zainab: That's the thing, I feel like once I'm off my phone. No problem, but the like the act of like taking a break on my phone. It's like oh look at the timer, and I'm like, oh, it's like I was supposed to get off at like, let's say like 6:30.
Maryam: Um-hum.
Zainab: It's like 6:32 I'm like, oh might as well go to the next, next full like the 5:50.
[Maryam and Ximena laugh in agreement]
Maryam: No, same, I do that too and it's crazy
Zainab: It's so bad.
Maryam: Because I was talking to a friend, and she was telling me how she needs to have her room exactly perfectly clean.
Zainab: Oh, me too. That's me too.
Ximena: Me too.
Maryam: Before she can start studying and like that's so interesting cause like you're just kind of like that's also a way of procrastination, I feel like.
Zainab: True.
[Zainab and Ximena voice their agreement]
Maryam: Because you're like, I have to clean, I have to do the dishes, I have to do my laundry, I can't study right now.
Zainab: Yeah, no, last week, before I was studying for my math exam.
Maryam: Um-hum.
[laughing in background]
Zainab: I literally, before I started studying, what did I do? I was like, my room is too dirty, like, my mind is not doing anything.
[Maryam and Ximena voice their agreement]
Ximena: I nearly started crying for a second. Because I was like, no, I can't do this, I can't do this.
Zainab: No, actually, but yeah, you're right, that is definitely another form of procrastination.
Maryam: It's not just social media, it's just like other daily acts that you do that just push away the that you’re supposed to do, I guess.
Zainab: Yeah.
Maryam: So yeah, as we just talked about, like our next steps would be just to limit the amount of social media that one uses and make sure to set like, specific boundaries so that you know what you need to get done and how you need to get it done. So now, do you guys have any questions? For me.
Segment 4: Questions and Answers
Ximena: Yes, okay. So, my first question is, how do different cultural and social contexts influence the relationship between social media usage and procrastination? Like, are there specific cultural factors that exacerbate or mitigate the impact of social media on procrastination behaviours?
Maryam: That's a good question. So the influence of culture and social context on the relationship between social media usage and procrastination can vary significantly. So because in some cultures, there may be greater emphasis on academic or work related success, which leads to like an increased presence of like performance like you have to perform.
Zainab: Yeah.
Maryam: At a certain level and which can like lead to like potentially higher levels of procrastination and coping mechanisms because of that stress.
Zainab: Um-hum. Yeah.
Maryam: And additionally, there may be culture, cultural attributions towards technology and social media may differ in different cultures as well that would impact the prevalence and the intensity of social media in that region.
Maryam: So social factors such as peer pressure and societal norms can also play a role in shaping individuals behaviour.
Maryam: Behaviours regarding social media usage and procrastination and understanding these cultural and social necessities is essential for developing the target interventions that one needs and the strategies that you need to create in order to combat this, I guess, illness. I kinda feel like it is.
Zainab: Yeah.
Ximena: At this point procrastination is a disease.
Maryam: Yeah, and then just kind of like know what you need to do depending on the area to combat procrastination.
Zainab: Yeah. Okay, I also have a question.
Maryam: Yes.
Zainab: Um, what are the potential long term consequences of a social media addiction, in terms of specifically, like, mental health, productivity, and just overall well-being?
Maryam: Um-hum.
Zainab: Like, how can individuals and society try to maybe, like, mitigate or reduce the consequences, like, effectively?
Maryam: Um-hum. Okay, that's a very good question as well. So, um, the potential long term consequences would be, um, it can significantly impact your mental health as well. So like they can impact your productivity and overall thinking and overall well-being as well. So the extensive social media use has been linked to increased feelings of loneliness, depression, and anxiety, as well as a decreased self-esteem and life satisfaction.
Maryam: So productivity may suffer due to the distractions and time wasted on social media, leading to academic or professional underachievement. Also, prolonged social media addiction. I'm sorry. Also, prolonged social media addiction. Can increase physical health issues such as poor sleep quality and behaviour.
[Zainab and Ximena voice disappointment]
Maryam: So to mitigate these consequences, individuals can implement strategies to limit their social– social media usage, prioritizing the real life interactions and activities and seeking professional help if necessary.
Ximena: Oh my god.
Zainab: Touching grass.
[All laughing]
Zainab: Go outside, breathe the air.
Ximena: Once spring comes in this country.
Maryam: Ugh, I know.
Zainab: Oh, that one day last week where we had 20 degree weather.
Maryam: It was so good! And now it's snowing again.
Zainab: Exactly, but I genuinely feel like when the weather is nicer, like, you just feel better.
Ximena: You feel better.
Maryam: Seasonal depression is a thing.
Zainab: It is. It genuinely is.
Ximena: Like, I love the cold, I love snow.
Zainab: Me too.
Ximena: But as soon as the sun came out.
Maryam: That's it.
Ximena: I was like, oh, I'm having a picnic.
[Maryam laughing]
Zainab: I was like a cat. You know how cats like, like to like marinate in like the sun.
Maryam: Yeah.
Zainab: Like I literally like went outside and stood outside, and I was like, the birds are chirping. Maybe life is okay.
Maryam: Um-hum.
Zainab: Right.
[Laughter in background]
Ximena: Maybe it's going to be fine.
Zainab: Maybe, maybe life is going to be good.
Ximena: Life was not fine, though, cause we had a bio [biology] midterm the next day.
Zainab: No, though literally, literally.
[Maryam voices her agreement]
Zainab: But that was low-key like I felt like that, that was another way to maybe, like, stop procrastinating.
Maryam: Um-hum.
Zainab: But for me, like, it was like going outside was like, a way to like, get my mind off of just like…
Maryam: Um-hum.
Zainab: My phone or just like what I had to think about just like…
Maryam: Yeah.
Zainab: Just like, I don't know. Nature.
Maryam: Nature.
Zainab: Nature is there.
Maryam: Yeah.
Ximena: Nature is beautiful.
Maryam: So yeah, basically what we've just been saying social interaction such as education and also like policy initiatives as well can be taking to improve like healthier attitudes towards life and regarding social media use as well.
Zainab: That's good.
Maryam: Thank you.
Ximena: Easier said than done.
[All laugh in agreement]
Maryam: Definitely.
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Ximena's Turn
Segment 1: Introduction and Background
Ximena: Okay, so, hi everyone. My topic is titled, Get Vaxxed!
Maryam and Zainab: Ooh, I love it.
Ximena: And it's about vaccines, autism, and the media's role in the anti-vax movement. Now, this is kind of straightforward. I mean, we can all attest to how this topic has become a lot more important nowadays (Zainab: Yes) post pandemic and such, you know, but I chose it because I had heard of it in class, and I was very fascinated by its origin story.
Ximena: It literally blew my mind I remember sitting there, and I was like, there's no way like, there's no way, but there is way. And that is what we're going to talk about here. And also I'm very interested in medicine, medicine related topics and such, so this was like, very perfect for me. Um, so first I'm going to introduce the topic a little bit, give a little bit of background info.
Ximena: Okay, so vaccines as we know have four types revolutionized healthcare since their creation. According to Rappuoli, they've not only saved millions of lives, but they've also significantly extended life expectancy, especially in Western societies. However, alongside their successes, vaccines have also endured a lot of myths, um, especially the most famous one right now being their supposed relation to autism (Zainab and Maryam: Right, mm hmm!).
Ximena: However, let me start by saying that's not true. So, to give a disclaimer, to give a little bit of a background information on autism: Autism spectrum disorder, a complex neurodevelopmental condition, has intrigued scientists for decades, but it's actually fairly recent. It was first documented by Leo Kanner in 1943… 19 – 43! Okay! 20th century.
Ximena: It remained also very much unrecorded, and there's not a lot of research going on about it. Misconceptions persist about this condition, right, and it just fuels vaccine hesitancy because there's like, a lack of research on this. It's also important to note, now for the for real disclaimer, autism's cause has not been properly identified.
Ximena: Although studies have shown that there is a genetic component, likely caused by mutations, but it's not really because of environmental factors, after birth, so, you know. (Maryam: Okay). You know. Yeah. So it's just genetics. Probably just genetics, but again, there's still a lot of research to be done, but we'll get into that in a bit, right?
Ximena: Okay, so, unfortunately the media used its undeniable sway over the public to harm the reputation of vaccines and its handling of the vaccine-autism myth has been filled with misinformation. There's been sensationalist headlines, like you've all read the whole thing on like Daily Mail like (Zainab: Oh, yeah. Yeah.) the measles vaccine paralysed my daughter!
Zainab: Especially with COVID! I don't know if you guys saw, but like on Twitter, I remember like I don't—this is probably like peak pandemic. There was this video of this lady who was like, apparently after she got the COVID vaccine, she like, developed some like, disorder where she like, constantly like, she was like, her legs would always shake, and like, she couldn't even stand or whatever.
Zainab: But like, everyone could tell she was like, faking it, because it's like, like, it just did not seem like, okay, I can't- I can't attest that if it was real or not. I can't remember if someone debunked it or something, I'm pretty sure it was debunked, but it was just very like, sensationalized like this lady was like obviously trying to spread misinformation, and then it was like everyone's like there's no like link to like COVID causing you to like, have, like, like—
Ximena: The stanky leg, bro. (*laughter*).
Zainab: The stanky leg! There's no proof, but on Twitter, you go on— oh my god, Twitter during the pandemic was actually—
Ximena: Twitter during the pandemic was wild. And I'm very glad you brought up (Zainab: Yes) that whole thing about COVID, because that's also something we're going to address today. Vaccine hesitancy became a major issue during the pandemic, and it still is, of course. Um, surveys revealed, actually, a very concerning trend. It's predictable, but whatever. Um, with a significant percentage of individuals expressing their reluctance to vaccinate, particularly against COVID.
Ximena: And this was done, like, during the pandemic. So you would think, you know, in an ideal world, one would think the survey would have shown, oh, I'm totally getting vaccinated! Yeah. No, no, no, no, indeed. So this takes us to the questions that I tried to address in this work. Um, first of all, what was the origin of the misconception that vaccines cause autism?
Ximena: And also, how did the media's miscommunication regarding the topic lead to an overall worsened perspective on vaccines? So we're going to dive into the history, trace the myth's roots, and the pivotal role played by miscommunication in perpetuating? Perpetuating it.
Zainab: I'm excited!
Ximena: We're also going to highlight the lack of effective strategies to counteract mass ignorance.
Segment 2: Origin Story
Ximena: Okay, so, for our next segment, I'm going to talk about the origin of the myth. So first of all, tell me your guesses on how vaccines originally got linked to autism. You may already know about it, I don't care. I don't care. Tell me your guess.
Maryam: Don't know! Um, I honestly don't know.
Zainab: Yeah, I'm trying to think. Was it like, maybe like, there was a case where like, some child at birth did present like—like typical traits of autism and then got their fascination and the parents like, the child grew, and then the parents were like hmmm. And then that's how that happened? That's my guess.
Maryam: Yeah, I think so, too. Like, maybe just like, it happening in one person and everyone just kind of catching it.
Ximena: I mean, someone probably saw that because it eventually led to an article being published surrounding that topic. So in 1998, “The Lancet”, a famous medical journal, published a study done by Andrew Wakefield— not shout out him!
Zainab: No, not Wakefield!
Ximena: We hate that guy. I don't know if he's still alive, but if you're out there, and you're listening, we don't like you (*laughter*).
Ximena: Um, and he claimed the link between MMR vaccines and autism. Now, shockingly, the study only involved 12 children, which, as women in STEM, (Maryam: 12? That is-) we know is unacceptable, right? It's not a good enough sample pool.
Maryam: No, it isn't.
Zainab: Tiny sample.
Ximena: Very tiny sample. And it basically concluded that: Oh my god! My child got autism from vaccines!
Ximena: Right, it said that it basically caused it, but it was just a very…no. Now, later on that article was retracted, but the damage was already done. So the media frenzy that happened after that fuelled a lot of fear and scepticism, among parents especially, and it actually led to a surge in measles cases because people started getting scared to vaccinate their children, right?
Ximena: So, in the UK, 12,000 cases were reported two decades after the study was published, and the U.S. saw 2,216 cases since 2000. So, there was definitely a, like, a direct effect.
Zainab: Is there also, like, a thing going right now where there's like, a few new cases popping up here too? (Ximena: Yup, yup). Yeah.
Ximena: We're also going to talk about—There was also a bunch of preventable deaths that have—happened in COVID.
Ximena: But whatever. Not whatever! Bad! But okay. So, enter the era of social media. It just became a breeding ground for misinformation.
Ximena: So you may have heard of celebrities like Jenny McCarthy, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and even political figures like Donald Trump (Zainab: Oh-) have (Zainab: Don't even get me started on that man) condemned vaccines and just fuelled a lot of hatred towards that, and actually fun fact, not so fun.
Ximena: Studies have shown that there was a disparity in vaccination rates among republicans in the U.S., so guess who their leader is, you know (Zainab: Not surprised) I know. So now we're going to go on to our next segment: Miscommunication in the media.
Segment 3: Miscommunication in the Media
Ximena: It thrives a lot in online forums where users engage in impassioned debates on vaccines and autism, so can anyone guess what the main forum is?
Zainab: Reddit?
Ximena: Reddit!
Zainab and Maryam: Reddit! Haha!.
Ximena: Woah, unfortunately (Zainab: Oh my god). So, take for instance, there is this one post I found, claiming that a pro vaccine expert confirmed a vaccine-autism link. It has like, over 2,000 comments under it (Maryam: Oh my god). Now, where was it found under, you may ask? (Maryam: Yeah?)
Zainab: R slash?
Ximena: R slash conspiracy!
Zainab: Of course! Of course.
Ximena: I know. It was just this whole thing that claimed that the whole causation of vaccines-autism (the link to that) was heavy metals poisoning by the vaccines, and it cited a scientific article. However, the Reddit user obviously just cherry-picked a bunch of information from the article, and it was—it just. When you actually read the article, it proved absolutely nothing.
Ximena: It was about babies and, um, heavy metals poisoning and how that was a danger for babies. But like honestly, no, no, no, no.
Zainab: It's Reddit like, what do you expect?
Ximena: It is, in fact.
Zainab: In my thing, when I was talking about Reddit, like, being a breeding ground for pseudoscientific information. Pseudoscience! Right there.
Ximena: Pseudoscience indeed. It also just a bunch of cherry-picking, like you pick out the facts that apply to your topic. The Reddit commenter is just one of the many examples of a broader trend in distorting scientific findings to, you know, fit their own standards, to fit their beliefs, but it contributes to the misinformation, of course.
Ximena: Now there's another social media site, Facebook. (Zainab: Oh…) Uh huh. You see the reactions? Just like that? Um, there's obviously an overwhelming amount of evidence that supports the effectiveness of vaccines, but they're constantly under attack on social media, like on Facebook, a lot, especially.
Ximena: Now, studies have been conducted by Polish researchers. And it also shows that since the accessibility of social media is so prevalent, like, anti-vax hesitancy has spread to other countries as well. So Poland, Italy, the USA especially, right. Facebook ignorance knows no borders, right?
Ximena: I mean like, there was vaccine hesitancy, of course, before Wakefield's article.
Zainab: Yeah, of course. But not to like the extent (Ximena: Nah) that it is now.
Ximena: It boomed after that.
Segment 4: Need for Research
Ximena: So, I will now highlight that there's, like, a huge need for research, which you would think the opposite. No! no, no, no. So since Wakefield's article, resources meant for understanding autism instead shifted to disproving vaccine links, right? And Mnookin's book—Mnookin? M-no-keen? I'm so sorry. Ximena: His book "The Panic Virus" — Shout out to "The Panic Virus", a very informational book, um, probably will summarise the topic a lot better than I could. It reveals how organisations treated autism as quote unquote “curable”, right? With some blaming vaccines.
Ximena: Um, there's actually a case study that I did during my literature review funded by Safe Minds, which is an anti-vax organisation that quote, “aims to solve the autism epidemic” (Maryam: Oh…) unquote.
Ximena: Epidemic! Like, no. Anyways, the study wanted to prove that vaccines cause autism and unfortunately for their investors, there was no link found, obviously, like at all. And aside from this study, there's been a huge lack of prevalent research done in the last decade, which poses an issue in a post-pandemic world where vaccination matters above everything.
Ximena: Now, researchers have highlighted the importance of continuing to study pro-vaccine messages, and how they can effectively be communicated, but that's as far as it goes, mostly.
Ximena: Like, they're like, we should continue! Raise importance! (Zainab: Right). Woo! Right, but there's like, not a lot now.
Ximena: There is, though, one silver lining that came with the pandemic: anti-vax views linked to autism were deemed ableist, and more people are becoming aware of the lack of proof behind it on social media. Which, you know, social media working for once, for the correct side (Zainab and Maryam: Right, yes, mm hmm).
Segment 5: Methodology and Findings
Ximena: Now, I also did kind of a second literature review, right? I know there's like a long paper trail of this issue, right? So I looked at news coverage, I looked at research reports, and articles, journal articles from databases like you mentioned. Yeah, like JSTOR? Love. And also like a bunch of media posts, um and non-scientific sources like Reddit or Facebook.
Ximena: Now I chose these because most of the history and ongoing debates on this topic are online, so they go beyond the published articles, the peer reviewed articles, and the studies conducted on vaccines. Which are also relevant, and I also highlighted here in my research paper, but I also wanted to look at the organic conversations about vaccine hesitancy, which I found on, like, forums and news coverage, stuff like that.
Ximena: So I found three overall trends that I found for my research findings in relation to my question.
Ximena: So first unsurprisingly, the media has a trend of blowing scientific findings out of proportion and therefore cause misinformation, and this has happened since the beginning. So like, I mentioned a bunch of misleading headlines, right? And, but especially, there's a lot of platforms given to anti-vax…anti-vax figures (Zainab: Yes). So like even Oprah was, like, allowed to invite anti-vaxxers to her show to hear out both sides.
Maryam: Oh my god, really?
Ximena: I know! Oprah.
Zainab: Oprah! Oprah, what are you doing, Oprah?
Ximena: I know, like, people give them a lot of attention, and they give them this platform, which should not be happening (Maryam: No, no).
Zainab: I think it's because it's like, a way to, like, sensationalise (Ximena: Exactly) and, like, get people's attention.
Ximena: I know. Like the Reddit users like they're like, wow (Zainab: Yeah) it's big pharma— I remember reading that comment, and they were like—oh, yeah big pharma wants to control us with the vaccines, they want to like, implant this! And like, no, it just doesn't make any sense, but it gives these people a platform and once they…once these types of discussions get big enough, they start being covered on news outlets and such which just gives them more traffic (Maryam: yeah). And it's just like no, right? No one is checking these people.
Ximena: Second, social media has become a place where news related to vaccines and autism are discussed under quote unquote “conspiracy groups”. And it acts as a modern continuation to the original print sites that originally spread misinformation.
Ximena: So, like, I mentioned Reddit and Facebook. You would think that this has stopped, especially among our generation, right? Because we're more, like, I guess, aware (Zainab: Yeah) of this misinformation, but actually a study reported that while this awareness of fake news is high among Gen Z and Millennials, less than a quarter choose to report false information.
Zainab: Oh, that's true. That is…that is true.
Ximena: That's true! You read it!
Zainab: But we don't… we don't—
Ximena: You're like wow, you guys are so stupid. Anyways.
Zainab: Yeah, like you don't yeah. I guess it's because, like, we don't feel like we could do anything (Ximena: I know, but it's—) like I've never actually thought about like, oh if I see something false, I just—
Ximena: If you see something, say something, (*laughter*) come on and party– okay, no.
Ximena: Um, but yeah, now you—If you're out there, and you see someone spreading misinformation, try not to engage and simply just be like, just report it (Maryam: Yeah, report it). Just do something about it, you know?
Ximena: Finally, vaccine hesitancy has directly— like directly— caused mass death, disease, and discrimination. So, previously mentioned were the reported cases of measles in the UK and the US after the Lakefield publication. However, there have also been reports of the amount of preventable deaths that happened during COVID due to a lack of vaccination.
Ximena: Now, one study estimated that 232,000 deaths among adults in the U.S. could have been prevented if they had at least received the first dose.
Zainab and Maryam: Oh, that is crazy…
Ximena: That's a huge number, and that was only during the pandemic, like, first dose time, so this number could have very well increased.
Zainab and Maryam: Yeah.
Ximena: Yeah, so… I know. There was also an increase in discrimination towards individuals with autism as a result of this vaccine-autism myth.
Ximena: Think of how many people are not taken seriously nowadays because their families are claiming that their autism was just the product of medicine (Zainab: Oh yeah) and not just something that they were born with. And instead of trying to understand, they're like no, no! Like the vaccines are the enemy, right? So several ableist organisations were founded under the pretence of, like, “curing”.
Zainab: Oh my god, Autism Speaks?
Ximena: Autism Speaks, indeed (Zainab: Oh my god). And they blame vaccines for a condition that has no proven links.
Segment 6: Discussion
Ximena: Now, these results show a very complex and incredibly deep-rooted belief that vaccines cause autism and harm, and this belief was only spread by the media and enhanced by social media.
Ximena: So, to answer the research question: The origin of a link between vaccines and autism can be traced back to 1998, and there was a large boom because of that in vaccine hesitancy. Now, this attitude became more extreme because the possibility of vaccines causing a neurological condition opened up, and fear isn't something that can be soothed [easily].
Ximena: So this leads us to the second part of the question, which considers the media's role in miscommunication, and we can conclude that it's completely— the media— is completely responsible for the spread of misinformation since it intentionally caused doubt in vaccines, and gave a platform to those who spoke about their alleged dangers, right? Social media is just an extension of that.
Segment 7: Solutions and Conclusion
Ximena: But! Hope is not lost…hopefully (Maryam: Hopefully!) there can still, something— something can still be done!
Ximena: So, simply providing facts about vaccination can cause even more hesitancy and have been proven ineffective. One solution is to enhance and spread the implementation of “motivational interviewing” as proposed by Gagneur? Gagneur, in 2020.
Ximena: So this technique entails providing workshops and personalised discussions between healthcare providers and parents regarding vaccines. So this was implemented first in Quebec— in all maternity wards in Quebec—and it reportedly reduced vaccine hesitancy by 40%. (Zainab and Maryam: Wow. Okay!) Very significant. Right? It's under the name PromoVac.
Ximena: And, you know what? Slay for the Québécois (Zainab: Yes). Slay for the Québécois.
Ximena: Now, another strategy is to prioritise enhancing trust in vaccines in younger generations, so anti-vax misinformation can be contained and reduced for the future generations, right? For our children.
Ximena: To do this, there must be an increase in reaching out to community leaders and people with influences among these generations.
Ximena: So you can follow the example of President Biden in the U. S. and how he invited Olivia Rodrigo, the singer, right? (Zainab and Maryam: Oh yeah, yeah). Right, right, right— to the White House. And she encouraged young people to vaccinate against COVID. Now, governments can also do more by implementing programs similar to PromoVac in schools, right?
Ximena: Students can have educational discussions that actually address their fears by, like, their community leaders, right? Because these are people they trust. And if these people are collabing—collabing—collabing with scientific experts, they—and encouraging vaccination, encouraging their own health, you know, it would help.
Zainab: No, that's smart. That's very smart.
Ximena: Yes. And a final suggestion is to increase scrutiny on anti-vax and ableist organisations.
Ximena: Now, repeating an earlier point, giving a platform to these people has increased their funding most of all, and it has diverted attention from potential breakthroughs in autism research.
Ximena: So governments, public figures, major media outlets, even people like ourselves, like students, anyone wh-with social media, they should report these organisations. They should scrutinise. They should like literally, cause hate, and show them how their views are extremely downfall.
Zainab: Be a hater.
Ximena: Downfall? Harmful.
Zainab: Be a hater.
Ximena: Be a hater! To the people who deserve it.
Ximena: So we can conclude that it's important to discuss the origins of misconceptions, and how to combat these damages caused by media, social media, etc.
Ximena: Scientific…the scientific community, along with the public, has to recognize how the vaccine-autism link has impacted these people with autism, and how debating this, like, non-existent proof has taken away necessary attention towards their research, right? People who are working to understand autism, to further vaccine research, etc.
Ximena: It's just led to a lot of vaccine hesitancy. Giving more attention just continues the cycle. So, stay informed, everybody! Now, any questions?
Segment 8: Questions
Zainab: I do, yes. So, I had a question about your solutions. Do you think that the solutions that you've proposed could be implemented worldwide? What can people do to increase awareness?
Ximena: Okay, I think in an ideal world, they could be implemented worldwide, but not everyone, unfortunately, is open to vaccines nowadays. And there are a lot of bureaucratic and political barriers (Zainab: Right) that this has to go through. But for now, I would encourage listeners or people to push their local leaders to spread vaccine education in their area, right?
Ximena: It might take some time, but hopefully one day, vaccines won't be linked to autism. Hopefully one day, people will be like, oh, that's kind of a crazy connection. I don't know how that happened. You know? Because they are now educated on this subject, and maybe one day, people would choose education. But for now, I don't think, unfortunately, due to a lot of barriers, [that] it could be implemented worldwide.
Ximena: But you know, you can start regionally, like you mentioned (Zainab and Maryah: Yeah, *laughter*).
Ximena: Yeah, you know, anyways, next question.
Maryam: I had a question as well. So, why do you think people are so passionate about the subject? Like, why does it keep growing and festering and getting worse without it being addressed?
Ximena: Okay, well first of all, the whole social media thing— it allows conversations to grow. But I also think it has to do with the psychology of fear. A lot of people think that fixing vaccine hesitancy is just, like, throwing facts at them, like, being like, no you're wrong! But people who are so utterly convinced that their son got autism from a COVID vaccine will not listen.
Ximena: They're not gonna listen! It goes in one ear, out the other, right? And that's why I think motivational interviewing, the one solution that I mentioned, is such a huge step, because it opened an opportunity for these defences to come down. And through genuine discussion and education about science, people started to listen.
Ximena: So if you're on the fence about vaccines, and are open to learning. I encourage you to do your own research, right, on the origins of vaccines, on vaccine, like, facts, and why they're beneficial. And keep an open mind and be open to education itself.
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Conversation Segment
Ximena: So that was my topic, you guys. I hope you enjoyed it.
Zainab: That was amazing.
Maryam: Thank you!
Ximena: Now, we're gonna discuss some of the core topics surrounding all of our, you know, topics. So, first of all, we all have this common factor: Social media bad. (Maryam: Mm hmm).
Zainab: That's very interesting, isn't it?
Ximena: Social media bad, indeed. Now, ladies, what are your social medias of choice?
Zainab: Oh, me. Um, I will say… okay, as a K-pop fan (Ximena: Real), K-pop stan (Ximena: Real), I am a victim of stan Twitter, so Twitter is up there (Maryam and Ximena agree). Unfortunately, Twitter and TikTok, unfortunately. (Ximena: The most-) X, I don't call it X. I don't call it X (Maryam and Ximena: Nooo, gross). Elon Musk, I will never call it X.
Maryam: No one calls it X.
Zainab: Dude, on my phone, I made a shortcut so that, like, the app icon is still a bird.
Maryam: It's still Twitter?
Zainab: I'm sorry, I can't.
Ximena: Hold on, is Elon Musk an anti-vaxxer? (sounds of typing on a computer)
Zainab: I think he is. (Ximena: Elon… Musk) I think he is. Is he?
Ximena (reading): Elon Musk's increasing scepticism of COVID-19 vaccine.
Zainab: Oh my god, of course he is.
Maryam: Oh wow, mm hmm.
Ximena: You know what? He probably, he might be. Not to spread misinformation (laughter). Not to spread. Do your own research on if he's an anti-vaxxer, but it makes sense. Anyways.
Zainab: What about you, Ximena?
Ximena: Um, I'm a personal rotator.
Zainab and Maryam: Ooh.
Ximena: I rotate a lot between YouTube Reels (Zainab: Oh my god). Instagram and TikTok. (Maryam: Okay). Right? So much fun for me.
Maryam: Yeah. That's it. I'm a TikTok girlie. I am a TikTok girlie. Literally TikToks through and through. You don't even want to see my usage.
Ximena: No, you don't.
Maryam: It is crazy.
Zainab: Do not go on screen time. Screen time is a personal, private thing.
Ximena: It's, no, it's something, no. Personal. But we can all agree that we're very aware of how our usage is affecting us.
Zainab: Yes. I think Chris-
Ximena: Shoutout (laughter).
Zainab: Yes, shoutout. Um, I think in one of the I think in one of our lectures he was like commenting on how like a lot of our questions have to do with social media.
Zainab: And he's like, the generation that grew up with social media is like, now questioning social media and I think like that is very true.
Ximena: That is very good too.
Zainab: I think, yes it is good, but I think it's very true because we, we grew up with social media as like pretty much a fundamental part of my life, right?
Zainab: And I think now that like when we reflect on it, we can see ourselves the harm. That maybe like, millennials, Gen X might not see themselves because maybe they got social media when they were older, right? Like they grew up without like social media like impacting everything. We grew up with it. Our adolescence was through social media (Maryam agrees).
Zainab: So like I think we grew up intertwined with it. And that really affected us.
Ximena: And it's only getting worse.
Zainab: Oh, absolutely.
Ximena: The little Sephora teenagers that you mentioned, every time I see them, it makes me so upset.
Maryam agrees.
Zainab: I know. It breaks my heart.
Ximena: It breaks my heart, because we did grow up with social media. We're now criticizing it, which of course is, I think, necessary.
Ximena: However, at the ages that these little TikTokers, that–okay. So these TikTokers are now like regressing to their 10 years old on TikTok like influencing, right? At that age, while I knew of social media, I was still playing with dolls (Maryam and Zainab agree). I was like monster monster [tune of Monster High theme song], right, but now these children are like I want my Stanley Cup I want my retinol cream.
Zainab: It's crazy. It's crazy.
Ximena: What do you mean!
Maryam: And also just going back to like the platform itself. For TikTok, I don't know about the other ones, they have like, I don't know if it's just for me, but like after I'm using it for a while, it would just give up me like this pop-up, It's like, enter, like, 4 if you want to continue.
Ximena: Oh, yeah!
Zainab: Really?
Ximena: Yup, yup, yup, yup, yup.
Maryam: And then it also, like, gives you, like, these little mini clips, like, oh, is your thumb hurting? Maybe you should go outside and, like, take a walk.
Ximena: Touch grass?!
Maryam: Yeah! (Zainab: Yeah) So, like, it's good to see, like, platforms also implementing, like, these, like, techniques to help you stop (Ximena: Yeah), you know going on social media as much as well.
Ximena: Yeah, unfortunately, I don't know if they're effective.
Maryam: Yeah, honestly, I just-
Zainab: I just ignore it.
Maryam: Anyway, I'm just like skip.
Ximena: I mean, I we–we have seen that, again, another common factor here is that the media is super influential, right (Maryam agrees: Very)? Oh my god.
Zainab: Like, not just social media, but just, like, just the news just in the media in general. It's, like, it's crazy because like, even though social media is like, I think the main form of how people get information (Ximena: Nowadays), yes, nowadays, it's still not like, it's not on its own.
Zainab: Like, we still have the news, we still have like, paper news, even though not maybe for us, like Gen Z or whatnot. The news, like, I don't know, CB24, Daily Mail, as you mentioned–
Ximena: Ugh! Daily Mail.
Zainab: -CNN. (Ximena: Guilty pleasure, can't even lie). Like, those places are very much still active. Like, they haven't just completely gone wiped out of our world like they're still there. And I think one thing that I feel like we might want to think about or like even listeners could think about is like, maybe we're not policing the media as much as we're policing social media or like criticizing it because like, we are definitely hyper aware of social media because we're living in a day and age where it's so influential and maybe because—I'd say maybe we're too young to maybe like, remember a time where the media like, news outlets were criticized I feel like they definitely were, but they were
Ximena: They were. I feel like now, now we kind of look at them and like oh, they're like the serious people so they can't be wrong.
Maryam and Zainab: Oh, yeah.
Ximena: Like no, in fact, they are wrong (Zainab: Exactly). And like, I don't know about you guys, but while I was researching all these like, anti-vax headlines, I found like—me, I advocate for vaccines— but I even found myself being like, oh my god, this vaccine gave this girl paralysis! This girl paralyzed! Like, oh my god.
Maryam: You just catch yourself like!
Ximena: You just catch yourself being like, oh my god what if I like, get, what if I die? Yeah, but no like that's kind of stuff is bad, and I read that through like straight-up articles, right?
Zainab: Yeah, no, for mine, not necessarily during my research, but just like, as someone who like, is someone who's interested in skincare. I have definitely caught myself on TikTok like, going through someone talks about this one product, and they're like, this is so viral. And like yeah, and I definitely see myself being like, oh really like if I see like three oh, like maybe I should put this on like my like what like I want to buy this or whatever.
Ximena: I have done that.
Zainab: Oh, I have like half the stuff that I use for my skin care now hey.
(Overlapping chatter)
Ximena: Every single lip product.
Maryam: Going back to what you were saying, it's like there was phenomenon going on, that's like, self diagnosing yourself (Ximena and Zainab: Oof! Yeah!). Oh, like if you were like having an illness, you like kind of Google it and like the worst possible thing, and you like kind of get scared.
Zainab agrees.
Maryam: And then you just, yeah, and then you just go to the doctor. He's like, no, you're good. It's a cold, like, chill. And like, also that's like another way social media and like media influences like. your everyday life, basically.
Ximena: It's really scary. Also, side note for our listeners, there's currently an open house going on in the University of Toronto, Mississauga campus. But we were watching all these people like walk past us. It was actually kind of rough getting here.
Zainab: Yeah, it was.
Ximena: I had to break through the crowd.
Zainab: I'm pretty sure there were multiple people that saw me and like the people at the "Ask Me" desk that were like, are you like a student?
Maryam: I had my hood up and I was walking. I'm like standing there. Please don't talk to me.
Ximena: No, I'm just my little backpacker.
Zainab: I'm a backpacker. I'm on a mission. I was like, I was zooming through this cabin.
Maryam: Speedwalking.
Ximena: Yeah, but speaking of regional house, open houses, there's another common factor here and that's implementing regional solutions, right? Start small, grow bigger, right?
Ximena: You never know. You really never know how big these solutions could get if you're pushing them like a district. Do we have districts in Canada level? Um, is it municipal?
Maryam and Zainab: Yeah, municipal.
Ximena: Okay, slightly like Mexico. Um, but yeah, these types of things could honestly change for the better, right? But there's a lot of like, there's still a lack of discussion surrounding everybody like we all mentioned kind of like oh, there's kind of a lack here. Oh, maybe there could be more like research kind of focused on this but not this, and I thought they would focus on that more. But no.
Zainab: That's very interesting. I think it's also because again, our questions are all supposed to be kind of new or like they're supposed to be something that hasn't already been discussed.
Zainab: So I think that's a very good thing, in a sense, because that allows for like young minds like ours to maybe be added to the conversation, you know? Because it's always good to get new outlooks regardless of what topic it is, like, we might not be professionals. I'm not a dermatologist, you are not a psychologist who knows everything about procrastination.
Zainab: You are not a beautiful scientist who knows about vaccination (Ximena: Beautiful?) (laughter) Maybe one day, 15 years from now, we will be these people, and we will be doing the change that we want to see, but right now you, as students. We're just trying our best, and I think that's very good.
Ximena: And we're here, like, doing something important. I guess we're educating our listeners, the listeners of the project.
Zainab: That's assignment like, yeah, this assignment I felt like was really interesting. Love, love, research it.
Ximena: I love– well. I like researching, but putting it in towards this into word…
Zainab: No, I love it. I love, I'm very good at making a little, little thing very big like I can write stuff and start.
Ximena: That's real, though. That's real.
Zainab: I don't want to, you know, yap, you know, yapping. That's a new term (laughter). I do. Yeah, but yeah, no, I think that this assignment was very interesting, and I think this discussion from this podcast I feel like it proves how important it is to do research and be aware of any biases that you may have. Be aware of the misinformation around you and yeah, I think our podcast really I think it got a goal.
Zainab: Like, I feel like we were able to discuss all our topics, and I feel like we've educated each other, and I hope we're all a little bit more well-informed about a variety of topics.
Maryam: Yeah!
Ximena: This is what we've learned. This is what we can learn from our topics, right? And these are our next steps, too. Like, stay informed, everybody.
Ximena: But thank you all so much for listening to Project Pals on this episode. I hope you all had a great time listening to these topics, and I hope you stay informed.
All: Yay!